Sensitive Topic Rant Incoming!

"Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again." (sir-stig) 10/15/2014 at 11:22 • Filed to: Gamergate, Feminism, Equality, Rants

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This post will be discussing some sensitive and controversial topics (including gamergate) I feel need to be aired out, if you just want to talk about cars, this is not the post for you. Here is the lovely Zonda Uno as a FP consolation prize.

For those of you confused about my motivation, this is due to the hub bub on oppo earlier this month, and the fools people males who think Zoe Quinn is all that is wrong with the game industry.

What is it with guys perceiving every change around them as a targeted attack, designed to castrate them and put them on the street? Why do we tolerate people who say things like "Women should be equal, but..." or who when they hear about a woman sleeping with a guy, assume it's just to make herself more famous/rich/powerful, as opposed to just liking the dude?

Who here honestly wants their wife or sisters or mother to be scared of pissing off some guy because he might rape them, or !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Why do people (lets be honest, males) organize something like gamergate and then focus on some !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! instead of one of the big publishing houses?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

What the hell is wrong with people?

Leon711 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:23

4

I fucking hate people.

CalzoneGolem > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:26

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People are assholes. They're always looking for reasons to band together and hate the shit out of everyone else.

EL_ULY > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:26

6

an unfortunate but isolated incident that is getting spewed over as a gender clash..again. Try not to worry about it too much and look.... racecars!!!

Audi-os, Amigos! > EL_ULY 10/15/2014 at 11:30

1

I like you.

JeepJeremy > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:30

2

that Zonda is bad ass!!!!!

Alfalfa > CalzoneGolem 10/15/2014 at 11:35

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This is sadly very true.

area man > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:36

4

it's beyond my understanding. I was just talking to my girlfriend last night about how it's scary how many of these people are utterly convinced of their own victimhood and the lengths they will go to justify bias and/or hate. People who are embedded in power structures will do anything to protect the status quo.

Pixel > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:37

5

Because our entire fucked up culture teaches males their entire life that women exist for their entertainment and that they are entitled to women's attention & bodies.

EL_ULY > Audi-os, Amigos! 10/15/2014 at 11:37

0

I like all of ya'll peoples on ze OPPO!!!

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > EL_ULY 10/15/2014 at 11:40

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The problem is that it IS a gender clash of sorts, the only reason the whole thing was news was that it was a woman *allegedly* getting ahead, which is why they focussed on her. If it was just about corruption she wouldn't be the focal point of their rage, it would be the big game companies that have real power.

Sweet Trav > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:40

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Sir_Stig, completely agree, fucking ludicrous and this IS one of the instances that if you aren't actively for equality, you are against it.

I want more PEOPLE doing the things I love because stuff (EG: games, cars, etc) is all temporary, relationships can last a lifetime. Many a friendship has been forged over video games, even a few relationships.

I find it so funny that these Gamerbros are actively hurting themselves in terms of legitimacy and chances of finding a meaningful companion. I was talking at length last night with someone about this exact topic. She wanted to record it and publish my musing.

On the actual games front...

EA is the one we should be ganging up on, add Ubisoft to that list too. Fuck those publishers.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > JeepJeremy 10/15/2014 at 11:42

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Robins egg blue is the bomb.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:42

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That's a very loaded question. Which by its very nature exemplifies much of the reasons for the "gamergate" stuff.

The thing is, some people like things the way they are. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. They have just as much right to argue for things they like, that work for them, as someone else does to argue for changes to things they don't like and don't work for them.

But yet when it comes to something as simple as "I kinda like the artwork in Dragons Crown and I don't think it needs to change" or "I think Gone Home is boring and ham fisted in it social message" suddenly just having that opinion makes you a misogynist.

It's not cool and it shouldn't really be surprising that people are tired of constantly being painted as the bad guy or having their tastes maligned.

djmt1 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:43

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I look at it this way. If GamerGate was legit, Gamespot, Kotaku and IGN would of been shutdown a long time ago.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:44

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Best way to deal with such movements is to completely ignore them. No attention = dead movement. One read of the comment section on IGN tells you how toxic and pathetic "gamers" can be. I play a lot of video games but I don't have it define me, I play what I like and that's that, it's just entertainment. In the same way someone who likes watching television doesn't tell people they're a "watcher" or whatever.

qbeezy > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:44

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Why do we tolerate people who say things like "Women should be equal, but..."

If you're intolerant to intolerance, you yourself are engaging in intolerance because someone doesn't agree with you.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:45

5

Yeah. This is the world women are subject to living in. Not only having your throat slashed, a woman was shot and killed for not giving a man her phone number.

I was at a track day recently, where I was subject to sitting though many crude jokes during the (hour long...) driver meeting, because 99% of the drivers were men, so hurrhurr, let's be "funny".

EL_ULY > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 11:45

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that's how the news work, been like that forever and it will never change. That's why I don't stress about things that don't directly affect me. The best things and the worst things in my life I and only I have caused. Less stress not thinking about those things that I can't control and more time for racecars

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > qbeezy 10/15/2014 at 11:46

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I don't have the patience for this. I really hope that was a sarcastic joke.

Sweet Trav > Pixel 10/15/2014 at 11:46

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God forbid as a man you have to actually be interesting to garner some attention from a woman.

djmt1 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/15/2014 at 11:49

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Correction: One read of the comment section on any gaming website tells you how toxic and pathetic "gamers" can be.

When it comes to gaming there is so discussion on the internet. Everyone has an agenda and bias they are looking to push which more often then not stokes the flames.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 10/15/2014 at 11:51

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Yep, I mean hell even the "console wars" have some pretty disgusting arguments. It's a fucking box to play games on. It's like me telling everyone on oppo to go fuck themselves for not driving the same car as me.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > EL_ULY 10/15/2014 at 11:51

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But when we as a community don't shut this crap down we are accessories to the fact. There are some people on here that I wouldn't want my wife to meet, which is a shame.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 10/15/2014 at 11:53

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My apologies. It makes me so mad whenever stuff like this happens.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 11:55

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Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but it doesn't mean their opinion isn't bollocks. Uttering death threats kinda makes them look like misogynists to me.

djmt1 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 10/15/2014 at 11:58

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The console wars are dumb. I've met some pretty die hard fanbois on all sides but at no point have any of them refused to actually play a rival machine. I just wish sites like Kotaku would stop fanning the flames and then hyprocritically put out an article soon after claiming the console wars are dumb.

Sweet Trav > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 12:07

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People are entitled to think whatever they want, I don't care. The second thought crosses the boundary into action , where you hurt someone, or threaten the use of force, use force, coercion, or intimidation to protect a trivial opinion.

I take issue with that.

qbeezy > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:09

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It is what it is. Lolol

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 10/15/2014 at 12:10

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Well they have to fan the flames to increase content, if there were no fanboys they'd get a hell of a lot less comments and page views.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > qbeezy 10/15/2014 at 12:14

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Get the hell out you troll.

EL_ULY > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:24

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It will never completely go away man. There will always be a bunch of bad people I wouldn't want the love of my life to meet either. It's sad but in a way, normal. World peace is absolutely impossible because things like this are unfortunately a part of human nature. Not everyone will ever be educated and live in a happy smile neighborhoods with rainbows and bunny rabbits. I'll worry about that bad hubbub on a local and personal level. People that truly care about these issues have theories and debate it a lot..... but in the end, like me, don't do shit about it. I'll just try to avoid all that noise as best as possible and enjoy my time on Earth with my family and....yup :] racecars!!!

KnotThatBusy > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:32

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It is much easier to organize? or stir up shit with internet speed and accessibility. Couple that with the anonymity that can cover your tracks and provide a veil, the amount of spineless turds that can lob grenades with no repercussions can add up quickly. The amount of websites that have crappy 'journalism' and throw out click bait is appalling. A rumor can go around the world twice before the truth can wake up and put it's pants on..

I admit I am not up to date on my gaming news. I have played more than my fair share of online games on my PS3 and had some eyeopening sessions as far as time goes. That shit can melt your brain, man. I am still reading all the articles I can on this to comprehend exactly WTF is going on, but so far what I have read is pretty lousy..

jariten1781 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:36

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It's a bunch of youths being youths doing what youths do. Being dumb, being inappropriate, being the center of the universe, and not realizing there are consequences to actions. Same story different time and it will continue forever in cycles.

area man > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 12:42

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The thing is, some people like things the way they are. And there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. They have just as much right to argue for things they like, that work for them, as someone else does to argue for changes to things they don't like and don't work for them.

Do you see how this logic could be used by someone defending, say, segregation?

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:43

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Here's the thing. If your rant started off with "why do some guys respond to rejection with violence?" or even "why are threats and intimidation so common when guys respond to opinions they disagree with?" then you might have a point.

But that's not what you started with. You didn't clarify that you are only talking about the people issuing death threats. Instead you made a blanket statement labelling anyone who is "pro gamergate" or resistant to change as a misogynist. And that's not cool bro.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > jariten1781 10/15/2014 at 12:43

1

I doubt it's just youths.

Voice of C. Montgomery Burns > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:48

1

And seriously ... who parks their Zonda in their house?

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 12:49

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Gamergate only cared that it was a woman that was corrupt, not that there are hundreds of men doing the same or worse. I'm pissed off that she is getting flipping death threats over this, and that people who align themselves with gamergaters respond with "but this is really about the corruption throughout, not just her" while focussing entirely on her.

She should be a god damn foot note, not the focus. Gamergate is stupid, if you care about corruption pick a better name and go after the big players, not the (female) small fry.

I'll change the damn article if it upsets you so.

jariten1781 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 12:58

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Nah, there's probably some incredibly small amount of moribund couch surfers in there as well, but the phrasing and tactics are youth central.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Voice of C. Montgomery Burns 10/15/2014 at 13:00

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Someone not worthy of it.

Vin > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 13:04

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1. A lot of men are fucking ignorant. Not stupid , but ignorant - as in lacking enough real-world experience involving personal responsibility, negative blowback or reprisal.

2. Feelings of entitlement due to #1

3. Internet + anonymity = diminished or complete absence of personal responsibility, negative blowback, or fear of reprisal.

4. Bandwagoning is fun (see: Jalopnik hivemind), and enhances feeling of entitlement

Mix it all up and you get bullshit like #GamerGate

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 13:46

2

You still don't get it.

Again, you start off with the assertion that gamergate is about hating women. It's not, and it's annoying that rather than asking what it is about, or why they choose to focus on what you think is irrelevant, you instead jump to a prejudicial conclusion and then present that conclusion as fact.

They aren't jumping on her because she's a woman. I'd like to point out that plenty of male journalists and game developers are also getting flack in the gamergate thing. And you saying that is either a dodge to justify ignoring their real concerns or evidence of being to blinded to even acknowledge that they have any.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 13:49

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Are they getting death threats? I doubt it.

Do-Rif-To > EL_ULY 10/15/2014 at 14:00

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That is a beautiful statement.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 14:03

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Um, yes they are getting death threats. This is the internet.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/…

And here's an article from 2012, long before gamergate started about how game developers receive lots of death threats. Note that both developers highlighted are male.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthi…

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 14:18

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I admit I was unaware of the death threats against men. It doesn't change the fact that gamergate started off on the wrong foot entirely. At this point it is too late to use gamergate as a rallying cry against corruption, because from the get go it has been used to harass women.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 14:47

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No, it hasn't. It's just been painted that way by people like you who have no idea what's going on or what the issues really are. Or by people who do understand the issues but choose to lie about it because it's easier than actually responding.

Gamergate is simply a crowd of people saying, "I think game journalists aren't responsive to their audience and I can't trust their reporting because I suspect there is an agenda to push specific games because of their social content rather than because they are games that the readers will enjoy."

You can throw all the chaff out there about harrasment and misogyny that you want, but that's the core of what's going on, and pretending that it's something else isn't going to make it go away.

EL_ULY > Do-Rif-To 10/15/2014 at 14:50

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da truf :]

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 14:56

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I will have to agree to disagree.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 15:11

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Agree to disagree about what?

You asked why people support gamergate, there's your answer.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 15:19

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I disagree that it's simply about journalistic integrity. If that was the case they could have just said "in the future we would like you to disclose any perks you may have received from the publisher/developer on all reviews". Instead you have militants going on the warpath. The core message I have seen does not jive with what you think it is.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 15:39

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No, the core message is exactly what I said. You're simply ignoring it because it fits your internal narrative better to paint all the gamergate folks as hateful misogynists.

And did you actually read what I wrote? Because I don't remember writing anything about perks.

See, what happened is that people have this discontent that they've kept bottled up for years. But nobody could eexpress it because doing so risked being labelled a bigot and ignored. Until finally you had one moment that just encapsulated everything that they've been vaguely troubled by and that became the spark to really try to get those issues out there and finally force a response to it.

And you know what the response was? Sure, some journalists took the opportunity to take a step back and analyze how their personal and professional relationships affect their work and the critical trust that any journalist needs to create in his readers. But others just ignored that and decided to slant it all as a misogynistic crusade. Which, since that sort of manipulation was part of the original complaint, just fueled it even further.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 15:44

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But the situation itself was hearsay from a jilted ex! Just because a cause says it has x goal, doesn't mean it really does when it only does y.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 15:56

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The catalyst may have been the Five Guys deal, but that was never what Gamergate was actually about.

You might as well say that the French Revolution was about not wanting to eat cakes.

And you know, Gamergate has been pretty consistent about saying X and doing X. It's the other side that's been trying to reframe the conversation around harassing women by cherry picking the same shit that happens to everyone and pretending that it only happens to women. Or is only motivated and sponsored by people supporting Gamergate. Or that everyone supporting gamergate is doing it or complicit in it.

In other words, the kind of stuff you are doing right now.

ACESandEIGHTS > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 15:57

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Well, if this threatened public massacre is any indication, then Jennifer Allway is correct in her assessment of Gamergate as a hate group.

As far as the woman whose throat was slashed in Queens... let's not put that on the same level. That's a criminally-insane antisocial type. Takoma Park, Maryland, has had this guy, as has London, among other places. I wouldn't count slashers as an organized threat towards women.

While I support the outing and prosecution of anyone who threatens Wu's or Sarkeesian's or anyone else's safety, I'd say avoid blowing this out of proportion . Is violence against women a pervasive problem? Sure. Did it start yesterday? No, but CNN and every other clickbait generator would have you think that there's some new wave of misogyny rearing its head and that it's being driven by dubstep music, the NFL, Dennis Leary, Hope Solo's twat, whoever and whatever...

It's been happening since the beginning of time and now here's the press and some women journalists trying to shine some light on it. (Though in Allway's case, I wonder sometimes if the aggrandizement of this demon isn't beneficial—and not coincidentally either—to her own self-promotion.)

There's obviously a counterculture of teen-and-twentysomething unsupervised, entitled, white, under-educated, under-socialized (and probably badly parented) gamers out there who actively organize against Those Who Would Destroy Gamer Culture As We Know It. But fuck 'em. They're slightly more effective now that they've left Xbox Live and their computer desks and taken to actively harassing people.

But you know what? Stem it. User cyberstalking and other cybercrime legislation and enforcement. Charge people with harassment. And conspiracy. And vandalism and mayhem and wire fraud and whatever else you can muster. Kick out the fucking doorjambs and stomp into some basements and grab computers like the law says the police can do. They do it with Anonymous and child porn collectors—let 'em do it to the cyberassholes. Meantime though, don't let the fearmongering press convince you that you're likely to be strangled if you're a woman and you pick up a PS4 controller.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Leon711 10/15/2014 at 16:26

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RIGHT!

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 16:54

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-inter…

Every article I have read covering the subject doesn't seem to think that gamergate is a good thing.

Snooder87 > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/15/2014 at 19:50

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Again, that's part of what bothers people so much about it. That for some reason even though they have valid complaints stated as politely as possible, the media seems to be running with a concerted narrative that paints them as horrible people. Seriously, it says something when the coverage is so completely one sided even though there really are points on either side.

The best and most impartial article on this I've found is the following from Forbes of all places. Just a shame that more journalists couldn't follow that lead.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain…

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Snooder87 10/15/2014 at 23:49

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That is one deep rabbit hole, I admit I had no idea there was that much history with Quinn. I still feel like a different banner should be rallied behind, along with a leader of sorts to maintain a clear focus.

Mattbob > Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. 10/16/2014 at 10:31

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This gamergate looks like one of the dumbest internet fiascoes I've seen in recent memory. I couldn't read the whole article. It's just a bunch of fucking turds getting mad about a girl dumping a fellow turd and trying to turn her into a villain.